“My Work Is to Show That It’s So Much More Beautiful When You Can Mix”: An Interview With Kim Thúy

Kim Thúy Ly Thanh, who publishes under the pen name Kim Thúy, was born in Saigon, Vietnam, in 1968. In 1978, when she was ten years old, Thúy and her family fled their home country by sea as part of the mass emigration of people seeking to escape the repressive communist regime and harsh economic conditions in Vietnam after the end of the war. These refugees, who were collectively referred to as “boat people” due to the many small, overcrowded boats they used to escape Vietnam, often faced perilous conditions on the sea; those who survived the risky journey were initially accommodated in refugee camps in Southeast Asia before being resettled in countries such as the US, Australia, France, Germany, and the UK.1 Thúy and her family made it to Malaysia, where they spent a few months living in a small refugee camp in Kuantan; they were subsequently offered political asylum in Canada and settled in French-speaking Québec in early 1979. In this interview, Thúy describes the warmth and affection with which she and her family were welcomed in Canada, which marked a sharp contrast to the emotional restraint she was used to within Vietnamese culture. She also outlines the challenges her parents faced in integrating into Canadian society and culture, which was so different from everything they knew. By contrast, Thúy quickly immersed herself in the culture of her new home, learning French and pursuing an education. She studied at the University of Montréal, graduating with a Bachelor’s degree in Translation in 1990 and subsequently with a Bachelor’s degree in Law in 1993. It was Thúy’s work for a legal firm that brought her back to Vietnam, where she also had her first son; her second was born in Bangkok, after her husband, also a lawyer, was posted there with his job (Hong, “Q&A with Kim Thúy”). In this interview, she speaks about the challenges of mothering her children in a foreign culture, despite the fact that she was living in relatively affluent circumstances and was able to communicate in English and French. Language and communication are also discussed in depth in this interview, as Thúy reflects on her choice—if one can call it that—to use French to mother her sons. Her characterization of French as her “language of love,” which she also associates with the openness and effusive affection she experienced on her arrival in Canada, seems especially poignant in the light of her assertion that she wanted to be a “fun mother,” quite different from her own strict Vietnamese mother, who valued logic over emotion. This interview offers useful insights into the myriad ways in which a mother’s experience of being mothered can shape her own mothering practices. When Thúy returned to Canada in 2002, she decided to try her hand at a very different career and opened a Vietnamese restaurant in Montreal. In this interview, as in others, Thúy tells of the experience that ultimately led her to writing. Late nights in the restaurant caused her to doze at the wheel on the drive home, and to try to keep herself awake, she started to scribble notes while she was stopped at traffic lights (see, e.g., Isaac). What began as scribbled to-do notes soon turned into more personal reflections, and after she closed her restaurant in 2007, Thúy began to type up her notes and develop them into the vignettes that would eventually come together to form her first novel, Ru (Hong, “Q&A with Kim Thúy”). Ru was published in French by Libre Expression in 2009 to great critical acclaim; the publication of the English translation by Sheila Fischman in 2012 sealed its commercial success. The novel tells the story of first-person narrator Nguyển An Tinh, who was born in Saigon in 1968 and immigrated to Canada with her family at the age of ten. In an assemblage of 144 vignettes, the narrative covers Tinh’s childhood in Saigon, the family’s journey to Canada via a Malaysian refugee camp, and the narrator’s personal reflections on her experiences as a refugee and as a mother in contemporary Canada. Though the parallels with Thúy’s own biography are evident from the outset, the author insists that “[i]f the book was only about me, it would have lasted maybe only about three pages” (Hong, “Kim Thúy’s Ru”). The novel has clearly been read as representing the experiences of many refugees and migrants; in Canada, it has been celebrated for the way it has “brought public attention to Vietnamese Canadian experiences” (Nguyen). As Thúy mentions in this interview, Ru was adapted for film in 2023; the film by Québécois director Charles-Olivier Michaud premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival in September 2023. Since the publication of Ru, Thúy has produced four more novels: À toi [Yours], coauthored with Pascal Janovjak (Libre Expression, 2011); Mãn (Libre Expression, 2013); Vi (Libre Expression, 2016); and Em (Libre Expression, 2020). Like Ru, all four deal with issues of exile and return, loss and longing, motherhood and family connection, and linguistic and cultural translation; as Brian Bethune remarks, Thúy’s work tells “the same-yet-entirely-different story of a Vietnamese diaspora everywoman, using the events of her own life as a lens to reflect the modern history of an entire nation” (Bethune). Moreover, Thúy’s writing reflects upon the complex interplay of languages and cultures that reflect her experience of the world; writing about Thúy’s third novel, Mãn, Natalie Edwards notes that “French and Vietnamese are not presented in this text as two discreet entities in a monoglossic system but as a dynamic, productive dialogue that emphasizes the practices of the contemporary multilingual individual” (Edwards 54). In this interview, Thúy touches upon the ways in which her writing in French is imbued with the musicality of the Vietnamese language and her imagery is inflected with references to Vietnamese culture. She compares this interchange and cross-fertilization to mixing a cocktail, where seemingly incompatible flavors are blended to create something new and appealing. [This interview was carried out by Eglė Kačkutė via Zoom in September 2023. The interview was edited for length and clarity by Valerie Heffernan, and a critical introduction was added in October 2024.] EK: Reading your work, it’s obvious that motherhood is an important theme. Your work reflects many important and subtle aspects of motherhood, particularly mothering in transnational settings. Forced migration has obviously shaped your own life and work in very meaningful ways. You were born in Saigon, and then, at the age of ten, you left Vietnam with your mom and dad and your brothers. How do you remember your mother in those years before you left? What was your childhood relationship with your mother like? KT: I was very lucky to be brought up not only by my little family with my parents and brothers but also with my aunts, uncles, and grandparents. I’ve learned a lot not only from my mother but from all the other mothers, all the other aunts, who acted like they were my mothers as well. In my culture, we feel that we have the responsibility to take care of the next generation. One aunt would put all the young ones to sleep; another is a French teacher, so she would teach French to all of us. And if they take on that responsibility, it means that they also have power over us. So, not only my mother, but all my aunts had the right to scold me or to guide me in life. My grandmother is the queen of all queens. She had this talent to make you feel that you’re always her favorite. She could read us in a second. She knew when we were not feeling good; this was the kind of woman she was. My grandmother was all about love. All my aunts and friends who stayed over—they became adopted children. She is that kind of a mother. My mother was very strict. She gave herself the role of the CEO of the family. She thought that my grandmother was too soft and too kind and didn’t understand anything. She was very strict—to all of us, not only me. She would run the whole household: the cooks, the nannies, so many people to manage. She is not the type of woman who would sing me a lullaby. She never put me to bed; it was the nanny who did that. She would tell me stories, but the story was always about a lesson that you have to learn from. I never associated my mother with the word “fun”—and maybe that’s why I decided that I would have joy. Not only fun, but joy. EK: So, when you say that you decided that you will have joy, is it in relation to motherhood or just in general, in what you do, in life? KT: In life and in general—and I wanted to be a fun mother. The first two years, every night and every nap time, I read with my son. I have books everywhere. I read with him, making fun with the stories. When he started being able to read the words, he said: “You never told the story like the story in the book!” Because every time I read the story, I would tell a different story. And lullabies, even though I sing really badly. I am not a good mother in the traditional sense of the word, but a good guide, because I didn’t want to have too many rules. My son, the first one, is more disciplined me. When he was or he said: it’s time for me to to I said: do you to I said: this the And he said: I have to the of I to be very with him, but it didn’t my mother’s by EK: I what language do you mother it one language or a KT: in French. my mother, like I’ve told it’s all about all about And it’s also because of the Vietnamese language and culture. You say of or or it’s never about were just the Ru to family because it will be out only on My mother with my aunt to Toronto for the My aunt for very like my all about love. She the and she because she was by us, after all years, to be at the International Film on the and to be to have this about She the whole time, and my mother, she said: are you to my mother, I didn’t have I didn’t learn it from I want to be with my all of that from the culture of people who are very of it’s more more I want to that kind of to my I have to do it in French. it in Vietnamese not from my mother. like or in My the one who a for her my mom with didn’t have that. And if I want to be with my I have a have to use French. And that’s why I use French with my children. EK: You were your mom had the role of a CEO of the family. What was her role in the family to KT: It was her Because she is she is as soft as but she has this where she to make it not of and why she could say that My it was the right to if it were only up to him, I we would have She was the one who led the whole She on her and her who were and She didn’t want them to end up on the and she knew that they So, she my of your and to come with me on a with my My grandmother you there are so many boats My mom but your is You have to where you want to you want to on the or at at maybe he will So, the of my mother a lot She was a one to do very but she that only She will try to make her only on her EK: In your there are many mother refugee mothers, who different mothering to their children for life to I you that kind of mothering in the of you a little about KT: is so You have to be a for your children. You have to make for and you always that you’re making the right for very to have this kind of responsibility, and of the time you’re for you even the good a if you do, if you So, do you keep the You have to be to your but not too and not you have to be So, do you deal with all When you are an the the mother the and the the in the not so of and the language even more what you mothering All of a you in a new culture, and your children can to this new culture You want your children to their own in a new society as quickly as but at the time, every time that they make in the new culture, they a little from You have the because you’re just and you’re just to You have to the for the whole family. So, it’s very I was not in that at I have with my but I could French or English in and people could understand me. I was I was not in I was only with all the and the care that the would And even then, it’s You the nanny to your in a different and you a new relationship that you’re not part An mother has to that every My is a lawyer, but I can be part of his of his or or So, his world; into this and making his own but part of is from Québec for many but I can to and she me. an the has a who is not of your culture, you’re and you for your friends over for a you that the that you’re is not like the one that was because you have the or you have the All those little children are a language that you that you never knew. You have to learn to up a of all that every Your children a of a of for and they are when you make them the from your own How you feel about You are that they are to the new culture, but you are that they are As an mother, you have that one more to deal And there are where your children will tell “You not a you’re not from and I am a a of but you never use culture to say that. You just too you and a new generation. to your And that’s You take it as a culture. an mother, it’s to your because it me Vietnamese I to I it’s You every time a little You have to the children are or like my when we and we I am by Vietnamese I Vietnamese And to Vietnamese to it lucky that my parents French. could us, the even though they were not as as we of Because they didn’t to they right in and of You really make friends in You do or on or to where of the time, just friends I would from the Vietnamese the they the and they like to the you really the in the with a they are and they really You can have one which is but it’s not a And I want the mothers to be I want that to be for it to be it EK: one of the why I your Because it what you have just it it in a it’s so KT: I it was in Mãn where the mother to be very but she her to be with who is more and Because to do you have to about your You my to be more in a society like Canada, in the She has to The mother knew that she didn’t have that of You have to for my It a lot of to I do not the for my The other will be able to up my children me. In Mãn, the who gave the to the next knew that she was by her and by her So, she said: this has to with another mother so that the other mother can her always about I that I have it many but it’s a When I back to Vietnam the first time, I was there on a little on the and this woman was and her little was with I remember her me that I her and that she was to me her My first as a What kind of a mother is would up her I her from that I what a She knew that she would the of her life just for making and her would maybe have a if she was care of by me in the She was to up her to who would her to me, is a love. only about her And you refugees just up children to people on a for the take the I be at my they will a lot of How is it to a that you’re it and that it’s not a that you want at I learned from the experience in Vietnam with that woman who wanted to me her that if you really your you have to back and them be by as many people as I learned it from that and from the experience of all have to it’s for my children to be with other they learn or take so that they can be and EK: I was to you next about you to writing. you a mother at that you tell us KT: I I in with writing the first time I read The by her writing is the she gave me the to Vietnam just a war. Vietnam became this where is She my of about Vietnam, and she gave me the right to Vietnam from the fact that I I Vietnam because I I for Vietnam because I had the the culture. When I read I just Vietnam because it’s It can be as a and a culture. why she a very important role not only in my but in my relationship with My relationship with Vietnam because of because I the book so I wanted to of you to a language in to I didn’t and I didn’t that in time, I had my can you when you have the your to You even because you have the for what you’re and what you’re feeling is or maybe it’s maybe it’s maybe it’s you name it because you have the So, you very to say it that but you feel you have the language to you’re So, I didn’t I could at I never knew that I would own and to All of that when I was I had a and I was very I a lot at and one of the ways that me to was to make notes and to-do What do I a you run out of to so I started writing of I knew. So, all of of that I knew. I out of and that’s when I started writing. EK: When you would take notes at the what language would you KT: French. I have in of the other French is my language of love. When we first all people were us in their were so with all of and they didn’t just us into their I remember when I to one of the for because we were they you have such great Your so I didn’t understand but that I because there was this it’s my When I I the that I It has to be with the so it be other French. EK: your writing is You in but you only in French. The multilingual or is into the of the text as it has many you tell us a little more about the of Vietnamese in your KT: of who first read Ru, he knew that I was writing in but the he was that he had just read a Vietnamese started and I that the and the musicality of the Vietnamese language were never the that I would or I the together and the One very for the means it can even be but in Vietnamese not at it’s or love. When I a for in my it is The way I the words, you would have something and you because of the Vietnamese The way that I a is very because in my the I or the of the is different from the can and every that you will that Vietnamese culture. In French or in English we in with but in there are like her like a so he about it When I the word or I try to the kind of I have the Vietnamese in the back of my we take every we can and the musicality of the it’s just the musicality of the it’s the of the it’s the culture you would never attention to but in Vietnamese it’s so important for me to that. The had her hand to to or call upon Because if you do it the other it’s very You can do that only to who is or to a but not a not Vietnamese would never even attention to the of the for me, it’s The way that I would the of that or in my it’s very where the hand EK: As you you mothered in a of and you had to different cultural of How of this is part of your And of this is part of your KT: all my work all about together all and How do you make them all like a cocktail, a You have the from you have the of the you have the you have the of the How do you all so that together you have a great that is just a or just or just or just My work is to that it’s so more when you can you the right it’s just the in writing. How can you in French and a of the Vietnamese culture or the Vietnamese language making the French too or that you the too How of the Vietnamese culture can you so that people and in what How do you just so that you have that so that the in new but not what I try to EK: I as that to different of mothering that people have to as who are mothering on the in different and in KT: you one that really my In my I about children who adopted this her mother, so she The didn’t the the could English but did not one culture to the The only the words, and there was a the In Vietnam, we say we everything to because the is that you are only the of who your have they were good you have a good if they were you have a life. always to your your whole life is about back that care of the because you them your life. This to the that your brothers and you can your to your This she understand what this was. She said: my These people only want my I only want She never to them that’s only because of the from one culture to the How do you so that will understand the Not the words, but the So, that’s what I try to do with my that if a Vietnamese have a it’s because of culture. The culture is that if the in of you that what is making you the could take it you that what you’re is me, you can use it as a So, as as you have or that’s like my mom not at the that’s who can back the emotion. In the can and have an of them are good; of them about it’s just different ways of so when you it that So, to your How do we the or the that. not one culture or the it’s the different one culture with the say is the of so that’s why we at a In Vietnam, if you it’s for for You a Vietnamese for your I about that. So, I made my Vietnamese in The shape is the is but the is the EK: It has been an and a to to you so for being so with your KT: because I feel like I have never really thought about issues before to I can understand what I This has from the and under

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