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Record W4416159177 · doi:10.48550/arxiv.2511.07272

Revisiting the Neural Tangent Kernel: the role of large width and depth

2025· preprint· W4416159177 on OpenAlex

Why this work is in the frame

A frame that forgets how it found something cannot be audited. These are the routes that admitted this work.

fundA Canadian funder is recorded on the work.
no affNo Canadian affiliation: this work is invisible to an affiliation-only frame.
No Canadian affiliation. An affiliation-only frame, the usual design, would never have seen this work. It is one of the works that make the case for inverting the frame.

Bibliographic record

VenueArXiv.org · 2025
Typepreprint
Language
FieldComputer Science
TopicStochastic Gradient Optimization Techniques
Canadian institutionsnot available
FundersCompute CanadaNatural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of CanadaCanadian Institute for Advanced Research
KeywordsGeneralizationArtificial neural networkLimit (mathematics)Kernel (algebra)LimitingTangentProperty (philosophy)

Abstract

fetched live from OpenAlex

Overparameterized fully-connected neural networks have been shown to behave like kernel models when trained with gradient descent, assuming standard scaling conditions on the width, the learning rate, and the parameter initialization. In the limit of infinitely large widths and infinitesimal learning rate, the obtained kernel provides a description of the learned model's output via a closed-form solution dependent on the architecture and the activation function. The Neural Tangent Kernel, central to this description, remains constant throughout training, a phenomenon that is referred to as ``lazy training'' or within the ``lazy regime''. Prior works show that the ``lazy regime'' leads to non-varying hidden neuron activations in infinitely-wide networks. Moreover, as infinitely-wide networks increase in depth, the Neural Tangent Kernel induces a closed-form solution that is data-independent, hence trivial. The Neural Tangent Kernel seemingly fails to describe the complexity of overparameterized neural networks on two distinct axes: large widths and large depths. In this work, we challenge these two conclusions and open the door to re-evaluating the Neural Tangent Kernel's role in describing the output of overparameterized neural networks. Specifically, we show experimentally that while deviations in the activations of individual hidden neurons vanish, the aggregate norm of these deviations does not. We support this finding with a theoretical result showing that the activations of the last hidden layer do not remain constant. Furthermore, we demonstrate that properly scaling the depth and stopping time in infinitely-wide ReLU networks yields a well-behaved, non-trivial output at large dataset sizes. We empirically evaluate the stability of this behavior on large datasets, and we describe the essential properties that enable the generalization of our results to other kernels.

Fetched live from OpenAlex and de-inverted. Abstracts are not stored in this database: the inverted indexes are 8.6 GB of the frame’s 9.3 GB of text, and the host has 13 GB free.

Full frame distilled prediction

Teacher imitation

Not calibrated prevalence, not ground truth. Human validation pending. Learned from the 10,348 direct Codex labels and 10,348 direct Gemma labels. Candidate is the union of thresholded teacher heads; consensus is their intersection. These outputs are machine_predicted_unvalidated and are not human labels or direct frontier model labels.

metaresearch head score (Codex)0.002
metaresearch head score (Gemma)0.001
Version: codex-gemma-dda1882f352aValidation status: machine_predicted_unvalidated
Candidate categoriesMeta-epidemiology (narrow)
Consensus categoriesnone
DomainCandidate signal: none · Consensus signal: none
Study designCandidate signal: Simulation or modeling · Consensus signal: none
GenreCandidate signal: Empirical · Consensus signal: none
Teacher disagreement score0.813
Threshold uncertainty score1.000

Codex and Gemma teacher scores by category

CategoryCodexGemma
Metaresearch0.0020.001
Meta-epidemiology (narrow)0.0010.000
Meta-epidemiology (broad)0.0010.000
Bibliometrics0.0000.001
Science and technology studies0.0010.000
Scholarly communication0.0000.000
Open science0.0030.005
Research integrity0.0000.001
Insufficient payload (model declined to judge)0.0000.000

Machine scores (provisional)

The two teacher heads of the student model, read on this work. A score orders the frame for review; it never asserts a category, and the validation status ships verbatim with every row.

Baseline scores from an immature model (maturity gate not passed, 7 training rounds). Scores rank; they never assert a category.

Opus teacher head0.028
GPT teacher head0.279
Teacher spread0.251 · how far apart the two teachers sit on this one work
Validation statusscore_only:v0-immature-baseline · verbatim from the scoring run: score_only means the number may rank works, and no category label ships from it